S3: Stephen of Charity Charge #87

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Stephen of Charity Charge

Welcome back to another episode of The Bonfires of Social Enterprise. My name is Romy and I’m your host and guide here. This time, we hear from Stephen Garten, the founder and CEO of Charity Charge in Austin Texas. Stephen discusses the moment the idea came together along with the current and I guess, ongoing issues of a social enterprise today. As we do over here, there’s a great song at the end of this episode, so stay tuned all the way to the end.

 

 

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Welcome back to another episode of The Bonfires of Social Enterprise. My name is Romy and I'm your host and guide here. This time, we hear from Stephen Garten, the founder and CEO of Charity Charge in Austin Texas. Stephen discusses the moment the idea came together along with the current and I guess, ongoing issues of a social enterprise today.
As we do over here, there's a great song at the end of this episode, so stay tuned all the way to the end. Now, Natalie Hazen has our Fun Fuel today, let's see what she came up with.
I’m Natalie Hazen and I am bringing you the Fun Fuel for this weeks episode.
Today’s college students are inundated with fliers & applications promoting the latest and greatest credit card. Of course, we can go back to the 1800’s when American merchants extended store credit to trusted customers. I think of all the old style cowboy movies where the weary cowboy dismounts his horse, ties the reins around a wood fence in front of the old general store and goes in to buy some well-needed merchandise like sasparilla or something. Gotta love the movies for that visual.
The WalletHub.com published an article about the history of the credit card and it was in the early 1900’s that a handful of US department stores and oil companies began issuing their own credit cards to be used at that particular business. Then came the Diners Club card and American Express charge cards in 1951 & 1959 respectively. Finally, in 1966, Bank of America launched the first general-purpose credit card: the Bank Americard – the forerunner to what is now VISA.
Now I’m certain, that there are still cowboys that dismount their horses and head into their local general store like in days of old, but the stores have certainly changed and so have the credit cards.
Thanks for listening to today’s Fun Fuel! Now on to the episode.
Oh my goodness, I have never connected [Sasparillo 00:00:46] with credit cards. Excellent Fun Fuel, Natalie you're the best. Oh my, let's drop in now to my conversation with Stephen Garten of Charity Charge.

Romy:
Okay, well welcome Stephen. You're calling in from Texas. I appreciate that.

Stephen Garten:
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Romy:
Yes, we're excited to learn about Charity Charge. Let's jump right in. What is Charity Charge?

Stephen Garten:
Charity Charge is a credit card that lets cardholders earn cash back, that automatically gets donated to any nonprofit of their choice. It's in partnership with MasterCard, so the credit card's accepted around the world, wherever MasterCard is. I think an easy way for people to think about it for context is imagine say a Southwest Airlines credit card where every time you use that credit card, you are earning airline miles. Charity Charge is similar in nature to that, it's just that every time you use it, you earn one percent cash back that's tax deductible and automatically goes to any nonprofit of your choice.

Romy:
Wow. It sounds simple, but I'm sure that was not a simple thing to get set up with a big entity like MasterCard. How did you even attempt that, once you had the idea?

Stephen Garten:
Sure. I mean I'm trying to ... I'll answer it in two ways 'cause it's a big question, but hopefully in way that also resonates with other entrepreneurs, or people listening to the show thinking of their own ideas. I had been accumulating all these credit card reward points and come the end of the year; I went onto the bank's website to redeem 'em. I probably spent 45 minutes or so, scrolling through, hey, do I want this Olive Garden gift card for 25,000 points, or maybe I should get this Samsonite briefcase or this pair of binoculars. I was just agonizing over what to do with all my reward points. I remember that after a while, I guess that 45 minutes or so, and then just in frustration, I just logged off and thought, I don't need more stuff.

The next thing I did is I checked my email and a local nonprofit, actually in Austin where I live and the company's headquartered now, sent me an email. It was the end of your fundraising drive, and that's when it clicked. I thought I was accumulating all this value in credit card reward points, and I don't want them. I'd much rather support this nonprofit that I already loved and cared about. That gave me the gist of the idea, but I think the point that I'm making, maybe for some people listening, is that it just seemed like such a big idea and I had no clue how credit cards worked or anything about the industry. I didn't know anyone in the industry.

One of the really practical things I just started doing, is I leveraged Google and LinkedIn. I think the really cool thing about entrepreneurship in 2017 is that we're all connected and have access to experts. In any business that someone wants to start, there's always people who have come before 'em. A quote that I've always loved is that "Everything great is accomplished by standing on the shoulders of other giants." I just started reaching out, and cold-calling and cold-emailing credit card consultants and that started me on the path. I'm happy to go into the minutiae of how specifically I did it for Charity Charge, but it was definitely initially being willing to reach out to experts in the industry.

The funny thing, I think we're gonna be putting up a blog post on our site and a blog. I'm starting to detail this, but one of the things that happened though when I reached out to one of the top payment consultants in the New York City area is that they said, "Hey, we really like your idea. We think we can help you out." They said, "We're just gonna send over a proposal." I got a proposal for ... They wanted me to pay them $250,000 just to get started for them to take me through the steps to pitch banks and put together the model that I needed to use and negotiate the partnership and all that stuff. There were a lot of challenges along the way in trying to figure this thing out. Of course, I didn't have $250,000, so I really just had to figure it out on my own.

Romy:
Yeah. That's a good word for everybody. That often happens to us, as well. You've got somebody in there; my sister affectionately calls them "sharks in the tank." A lot of people stop there, don't they?

Stephen Garten:
... I think a big thing that entrepreneurial endeavors teach you is a level of just emotional intelligence and also just taking reality for what it is. It could have been easy for me just to have complained and said, well, these are consultants, these are sharks, they just want to charge me. The reality is that was their business, and their clients are the Southwest Airlines of the world that set the market rates, being willing to pay those enormous fees and things of that sort.

I think, at the time, I was completely dejected. I thought that there'd be no way to figure this whole thing out, but very much on the flip side of what you said there, the DIY is that what I learned is you can get out there. You can connect with people that started this conversation and get advice and all that, but at the end of the day, it does fall on you as an entrepreneur to actually go forward and execute.

It's been awhile since I thought about this experience, but on even this specific topic of connecting with experts in industry, I remember though that I called 17 people originally. They were credit card consultants that I found on LinkedIn or Google, and I got to number 18. The first 17 either didn't return my phone calls or if I got 'em on the phone, within 30 seconds, they rushed me off the phone, and they weren't interested in talking to me. Number 18 ended up being this gentleman, his first name's Hunter. He was working for a top consultant, one that I spoke with that didn't charge me. He was super friendly and great, gave me some basic advice on a handful of calls, a handful of emails. Then, fast forward about a year later or so, he was actually hired by MasterCard to run their co-brand business development team. Having that relationship early on, the guy that I cold-called, that I developed a relationship and he had respect for me and the idea that I was working on, was really instrumental in ultimately getting that partnership with MasterCard.

Yes, which is awesome for me now, and it's funny as I think back to just being in my apartment with this idea and trying to figure it out a handful of year ago.

Romy:
It's just helpful to go back to those humble beginnings and draw people's attention to, yeah, we all have to walk through some of these awkward early steps, right?

Stephen:
Yeah, absolutely. I agree with everything you just said. I think that a quote that had really resonated with me at the time ... I think I was watching a Tony Robbins video on YouTube or something. He said something to the effect of, "You know, most people quit 'cause they say they tried everything, but you've tried everything that doesn't work." [inaudible 00:10:39].

My uncle said to me once, he was relating to kind of ... When I was originally moved to Austin, I was looking for a job, and I was having trouble finding any place that would hire me and kept going on interviews and not getting hired and stuff. And he said, "It's just a game. You pull a lot of blanks out of the bag and eventually one of them is gonna be live. So you gotta take a lot of shots."

Romy:
That's good advice. Let's talk about what Charity Charge has become now.

Stephen:
I graduated college in 2008 and moved to Austin in 2010. But we officially launched the company in June of 2016, so it's been about 15 months, or 14 or 15 months now.

Romy:
Let's dive in. We're recording this in the end of summer, 2017, just about September. So what's happening right now with Charity Charge?

Stephen:
Yeah. We've got a couple of exciting new products and things around the corner that I'm gonna go into. But I would start with just saying that the first year was, to say the least, very overwhelming. When we launched, I was not quite expecting the reception. It was another thing that I've kind of proved the doubters wrong. I was the most surprised by anyone, I think. But when we launched, Today Show picked us up and Fast Company and Huffington Post and a lot of other national new outlets like that. So we were really overwhelmed with demand but also at the same time, as an entrepreneur when you're starting a new enterprise, you're trying to figure out and get your processes in place and your team in place and understand how you can scale your business model. So the past year was getting our feet underneath of ourselves and really figuring out ways that we can scale so that we can make impact.

I think that the really cool thing about Charity Charge, and kinda how I think about it, is it's really a tool for giving. I mean, we at Charity Charge have created this credit card that's really going into an industry that ... In total, 31% of consumers never ever redeem their reward points. So that's $16 billion a year that ultimately flows back to the credit card companies. They call that breakage. They really hide that from cardholders and consumers. But on the credit card industry's side of things, these big banks, they create and market these credit cards that, on the surface, seem to have really rich rewards and bonus points and all of that stuff but then they purposely create things like blackout dates or certain point thresholds you need to accrue towards in order to redeem it for that gift card or that level of cash back.

That billions of dollars flows back, so at Charity Charge, what we do is, the cardholders earn 1% but they pick their nonprofits up front, any nonprofit in the United States including K through 12 schools, churches, et cetera so that it automatically flows to the nonprofits. We have no breakage in our model. I'm kinda going on this rant because I think that we've just got such a great opportunity that we really wanted to figure out how we could scale it because we see this one day redirecting billions of dollars every year back to nonprofits, which goes along with our mission, which is more profits for nonprofits.

Romy:
Oh, I love it. I love it. Are you able to track how many dollars have been redeemed or sent out to the nonprofits sort of through the summer of 2017?

Stephen:
Yeah. I mean, we're fortunate that we're able to track all that. There's some things with our agreements with MasterCard and the bank right now that preclude us from sharing really intimate details about that. But we're working on figuring out some ways that we can be more transparent about our impact as the company.

Romy:
Yeah. Let's land on that for a minute. It is often that you might have some relationship issues or things that you can't disclose. How are you overcoming the impact statements? Everyone's interested in reported impact and the accountability of that. Are you able to report out any portion of that, or how are you addressing that with your key stakeholders that are attracted to you because of the potential dollar impact that you might be making?

Stephen:
Sure. One thing, just to be really clear. For the people that are actually cardholders, they're able to, at any point in time, log in to their donation dashboard and track and see what they've earned. From a cardholder's perspective, full transparency there. And then for our nonprofits that are benefiting from it, individually, we provide a report to them and let them know how much they've earned and things of that sort. But we wanna be more public and outspoken of our impact, so we're working through some things now. I would say this, I mean, it's probably not the politically correct answer. But I think in entrepreneurship, and it's something that I do every day at the company and will continue to do, is ... You gotta excuse me, Romy. I'm blanking on the [crosstalk 00:16:49]-

Romy:
That's all right.

Stephen:
What do they say? Ask questions later or [crosstalk 00:16:54]-

Romy:
Oh, yeah. And apologize later [inaudible 00:16:55] apologize.

Stephen:
Exactly, yeah. So, no. We'll be working to be more outwardly transparent, but for anyone, that's actually involved in the company ... If you're a cardholder, there's full transparency to the cardholders and then complete transparency to the nonprofits that are on the receiving end.

Romy:
Stephen, have you had any, I don't know, any pushback from the industry because of this breakage issue that you talked about? That's a lot of dollars sitting on the sidelines. I mean, you're a disruptor, right? We'll just call it that 'cause you're doing the right-

Stephen:
Well, I think-

Romy:
You're a doing the right thing disruptor, but sometimes people don't like it.

Stephen:
Yeah. I mean, I think that we're trying to be. I think disruption is such a big word. In companies that scale, like a Tesla or someone like that, have done it, we're trying to get there, right? We need more cardholders. We need more people that, whether it's ... just choosing to add Charity Charge to their wallet. They might wanna use their other cards for different times but even if it's 10% of the time, even if it's just to buy gas, or it's when you dine out with friends, add Charity Charge to your wallet so you can feel good and do good in those times that you wanna give back. That's kind of my message one or my little plug there, to be a little shameless.

But for us to actually get to that point where we're truly disrupting and sending billions of dollars back collectively to nonprofits in need ... Yeah. I think that we're a public benefit corporation, mission first, and that goes counter to the banks, right? I can't say that it's a bad thing. I think that the rules that they're playing in and the sandbox of how they're judged is just different than ours. If you're Bank of America or you're Chase, Capital One, Citi, et cetera, these labeled, quote, "Too big to fail," banks, they're corporations. The legal definition of a corporation is that it exists to serve its shareholders and it exists to maximize profits. So I think that there needs to be ... and it's starting, right?

I mean, we elected to become a public benefit corporation. The whole point of a lot of your work is dealing in social enterprise. We really need a consciousness shift amongst leaders and CEOs. Something that I was asked early on when we were initially trying to raise capital for this were ... Investors would say, "Well, what happens when Bank of America decides to do this, or Capital One?" At first, I really didn't have an answer. And then I got some really great advice from the CEO of a social enterprise that actually raised money on Shark Tank from Damon John called Bombas. He told me that they all should. He would get asked that question about,

"When you were creating this one-for-one-stock company, what happens when Nike decides to do it?" And his answer was, "They should. Why aren't they doing it?" So that's kind of my answer. It may turn out that my contribution is that the rest of the industry says, "We should all try to maximize profits for nonprofits and get into this game." I don't think they will, based on ... They're already fat and happy, and like I said before, the sandbox they live in has predefined rules, and they play by those rules to appeal to their shareholders. But going on this rant here, how awesome would it be if the rest of the industry changed and followed our lead?

Romy:
Right. Right. There's always the threat of doing good, and then there's those that are taking some action steps to attempt it. I always used to say early on ... People did that to us a lot too. They had said, "Gosh, Romy. What if this big dog or that big firm, whatever, decides to do what you're doing? Or what if they steal your stuff?" It's like, "Well, then I'm an influencer, right? Then, I'd be amazed that that good happened, and we'll go on to something else if it actually takes us out of the scene." But actually, people have good intentions but there's not a whole lot that follow it up with the action, and unfortunately. So I'd love it to be the other way. I'm in total agreement with you; it'd be better if we all did something good. And you leading the way is role modeling one way to do it. We can gradually [inaudible 00:21:42] for it, and that's a good attitude to have, helps everybody play nice in the sandbox.

Stephen:
Thank you, I appreciate that. I also think that, to be candid ... And that's why I shared the story of, it wasn't until I met the founder of Bombas that I really internalized and took on that mentality. But I think it's also just being practical and realistic about it. If you come up with a good business model and you execute well, people are gonna follow suit. But again, agreeing with you here, that is the really cool thing about social enterprise is that it's mission first. If other people copy your business model, then the net effect is it's just gonna be doing more good in the world.

Romy:
Yeah. We have a lot of people on deck in this world here. We're not a couple hundred thousand of a population that everybody has to share. We're a big group of folks right now. There's enough to go around, and I'd say, I like your abundance mentality. The more, the merrier.

Stephen:
Yeah. I also think ... Building on that, I think having the right mentality about life because it's really ... I lived for a while in a state of fear and worry, and someone's gonna steal the idea, and someone's gonna beat me to market and do it, and what a terrible place to live. I mean, live mentally, live in your head. It was awful when I look back on those early years of being just a scared entrepreneur.

Romy:
Right.

Stephen:
Just, yeah. I mean, I would tell everyone, "Please, please ... " 'Cause I think that's the big thing and some people are starting to talk about it more, but it's not addressed enough about the depression and the isolation that comes with entrepreneurship. I think the Shark Tanks of the world and the Inc. Magazines have really tried to glorify it, but it's a very, it can be if you let it, an extremely lonely and depressing process that can really get to you.

Romy:
Yeah, that's a good word. That's so true. I'd be curious to see if you find this to be true, Stephen, as a benefit corporation. We, even the social enterprise I think, in general, attracts a lot of even celebrity-level attention. And so people assume that you are surrounded by a tribe, if you will, of support, and it's actually quite the opposite. It's really this extra thing that happens with social entrepreneurs [inaudible 00:25:43] like you said, Today Show, top celebrities, they're swooping in all the time. And I know here in Detroit; this is happening regularly.

It's almost ... Not that that's not of value, but the question is, "Gosh, I need them to buy our products. We're a business at the end of the day. We're a story, but we are a business that, unless people are buying our products and services, we can't be sustainable." What are your thoughts on this sort of extra attention that happens?

Stephen:
Yeah. I think this is a big, big, big, big problem with social enterprise or public benefit corporations, b-corps, all the stuff that falls under that bucket or that umbrella. It's that, first and foremost, as an entrepreneur starting out, we have just a concept and the idea, for example, what I was trying to do.

It's very hard to get an honest and direct answer, okay? If you're just saying, and I'm not knocking anyone that's coming up with a new photo sharing app, but if you just say, "Hey, I have this new app for a photo share," and you apply for accelerators, you talk to people, they're gonna be honest with you. They're gonna say, "Your app sucks," or, "I like your app," or, "Change this feature," or whatever. But if you come out and say, "Hey, I have this idea. I wanna help nonprofits. I wanna give back money. I wanna get people to be more philanthropic. Let's help charities," nobody wants to tell you that it's a bad idea. People would rather just pat you on the back even if they think it's a (bleep) idea, excuse my language.

Romy:
Yeah.

Stephen:
Yeah. But at any rate, I think that's a real challenge first and foremost in entrepreneurship, or social entrepreneurship rather, is to, A, talk to people that you trust, and I think almost pressed to say, "I know that it's easy for you just to pat me on the back but please poke holes in this. Please be honest about the challenges that you see." I think now ... So that's in the concept space, and that's a challenge that I faced.

Then, what you're talking about is when you actually get into market ... Look, it was awesome that Today Show covered us but it was a feel-good story, and God bless them. I love it, and I'd never take it back. If anyone at the Today Show's listening would love to be on as a guest, so I don't want this to come across the wrong way. But it's a feel-good story for them, right? They get to plug it. This credit card, it gives back to charity. It's something new; it's unique. But it doesn't mean that just 'cause we were on the Today Show, that the next day, a million people sign up for the card and we were an overnight success. It's quite the opposite, actually.

I think that as a social enterprise, it can be easier to get that press 'cause you're now in market. You've got that feel-good. People wanna cover it. You're giving back to charity. You're doing good, whatever your one-for-one or your business model is. You gotta be very weary. That's why we've really practically been thinking a lot. We're about the updates, do a whole new overhaul on our website. We've really kinda got back to the drawing board of how do we message out in a simpler and cleaner way? How do we get more cardholders engaged in what we're doing?

One of the things that we've found was that ... And it was the way I was pitching it 'cause, obviously, I'm the founder of this company, I use Charity Charge for everything, and I wanted everyone to use it for everything. But the reality is people have, on average, three to four credit cards in their wallet. Some of those ... they really like the benefit of the airline miles. But, for example, what we found with a lot of consumers is that they'll get a credit card, they really get the value out of it when they're using it, say, for the categories where it earns them 3X or 2X points. But in those opportunities where they're not getting bonus points, say it's just that 1% at the random coffee shop or the gas station or whatever category their card only earns a base level of points, Charity Charge is a great opportunity for them to add it to the wallet, get the benefit of tax detectability.

And again, even if it's just 10% of the time they're using it, they get the opportunity to do good and feel good. That's the practical side of how we've kinda had to also get back to the drawing board and figure out how to really message our product and make sure it's understood by cardholders that maybe don't wanna give up all of their points but wanna be able to give back at certain times.

Romy:
I love what you're saying there, Stephen, because to me, that's the hallmark of a good social entrepreneur, is making sure you're staying focused on sort of the bonfire of your business, the engine of your business. It's why we're called Bonfires of Social Enterprise on this podcast because we're always trying to draw the attention to the engine of the business and making sure your product is high quality, so you're not asking for a mercy pass on the quality of your business. I love that you are diving in and making sure your business is great because it is a symptomatic issue of a lot of social entrepreneurs.

Romy:
Yeah. Well, awesome. Let's talk, too, about your team a little bit. Were there any things that surprised you in the types of talent that you were gonna need once you got in and got going?

Stephen:
Yeah. I think that, early on, I was in this concept and kinda ideation phase of trying to get the partnerships set up with MasterCard and our eventual credit card issuer, which is Commerce Bank. I think it's ... The challenge is it's hard to forecast exactly which direction your business is gonna go in and be able to really look down a couple years out, when you're thinking of co-founders or early employees, of what skillset do you need? Quite frankly, where I've ... And I've been kind of burned by some people or some mentors. I've kinda learned that the hard way. I've also gotten a lot out of other people that were more just kind of jack of all trades 'cause I think that you're always aerating and figuring out your marketing. Even a practical thing such as how do you know ... Before you launch, you don't know yet, what's gonna scale in terms of customer acquisition.

So it would be ridiculous, before you launch and have done any testing in customer acquisition, to go, "Okay. Well, we're just gonna do everything through Facebook so I gotta get an expert that can market in Facebook." Maybe it's PR that's gonna work really well, so you need someone in that. I've just found having people that are smart and young and kinda jack of all trades, that can roll up their sleeves and just get stuff done, are ... Our first employee is a woman named Alexandra. I hired her. She was interning for us, and then I hired her right out of college. She went to the University of Texas. She came on board last year, and she's just such a quick learner and able just to get stuff done. That's the biggest things that we've needed, but she's done everything from PR to coding on our website to customer service to building on Salesforce for us and so many other things. I think my advice or what I've just learned is just try to find people that are flexible and smart and nimble.

Romy:
Right. Good character, good attitude, right?

Stephen:
Absolutely. Yeah, that's all first.

Romy:
What are you excited about these days when you, well, if you let yourself dream big with the truth that you now of the moment, the way the facts present themselves this morning?

Stephen:
Yeah. I'm really just excited about how large this market is and the opportunity in front of us. We've already had success directly working with nonprofits. For example, Whole Planet Foundation is one I love to talk about because they reached out to us. We gave them [inaudible 00:35:07], which ... And we do this for any nonprofit if there's any nonprofits listening that wanna partner with us. We don't charge them anything. It's completely free for the nonprofits but we give them a little fundraising page that they can share out to their supporters.

So Whole Planet Foundation shared that out. They already have over 20 cardholders. They've already raised thousands of dollars. So when I see how easy it is for just individual nonprofits that are engaging with us, I know that it's just a matter of time for us to just work closer with more and more nonprofits and be able to fulfill this mission of creating a community of cardholders that are redirecting, at scale, billions of dollars every year back to nonprofits.

Romy:
So that sounds, Stephen, like that's one-way listeners could support you, by introducing you to nonprofits or foundations that have networks that they could help promote the card. That could be a version of an ad hoc Salesforce almost for you. Does that sound ...

Stephen:
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, we love nonprofit introductions. My email is just stephen@charitycharge.com, with a P-H, so S-T-E-P-H-E-N@charitycharge.com. Another great way is if anyone's listening and just wants to become a cardholder, you can apply for your card at charitycharge.com. We've already got every nonprofit in the US listed, so you'll be able to search and find your nonprofit. That's a great way to get in the mix and start giving back.

Romy:
Well, that would be great. We encourage all the listeners to jump on, find out more about Charity Charge. Stephen, what is the website maybe and other places they might find you on social media?

Stephen:
Yeah. So across all social media platforms, we're simply @charitycharge. I'm personally on Twitter a bit, @stephengarten, with a P-H. And then charitycharge.com is our website. Look, I encourage people to reach out to me too if they have questions or wanna talk. It's just stephen@charitycharge.com, with a P-H.

Romy:
Stephen, thank you so much for being so real and open and encouraging to all the other social entrepreneurs out there and over the world that's listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it.

Stephen:
My pleasure. No, thank you so much, Romy, for having me on.

Thanks to Stephen and his growing team for all you're doing as an innovator in the financial credit space. We appreciate your determination to get the social organizations the funding they need. Great causes and change can require great resources. So, turning to resources, let me resource all of you right now with some cool music by the Detroit artiste, curated by our friends at Assemble Sound in Detroit. Here is artiste [Hiker 00:01:28] with the song Rhino, until next time keep those bonfires burning.

 

Website for Charity Charge

 

https://www.charitycharge.com/

https://www.facebook.com/CharityCharge/

 

 

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